Dad3353

Good evening, @Syemon, and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share. Hmm... Bass Hat, eh..? They're a right shifty lot over there...

One 'trick' for 12-string guitars is to tune down a tone, and use a capo permanently at the second fret. This reduces the extreme tension of the twelve strings, and thus the risk of having the bridge pull the table into a 'belly' deformation. Just sayin'.

I can help you with that, in very large doses. Of course you're right (as I wrote above...). There is a built-in, designed, luthiered curve to the top of your guitars. They have not evolved since new, and have been so built by craftsmen to stay that way, giving excellent playability and tone for... Well, even longer than that. I still stubbornly maintain that, in my experience, that's a lot of curveture for a flat-top acoustic. Nothing wrong with that, for those guitars, so enjoy, and for decades to come. Why are they built that way..? That's for their conceptors to answer, but they did it that way for their own good reasons. As I stated, my modest Takamine has a bow of maybe 1mm each side, hardly noticeable until a straight-edge is applied. No, it hasn't moved, and will not do so. Why isn't it bowed more..? Because that's the way this model was designed, s'all. Next time you're off to a guitar shop or exhibition, take a straight-edge with you and see how Martin, Gibson, Ovation etc are all different. Many will be flat, others maybe slightly curved, maybe as much as your models. It's very slight in most cases, and I'd still, by eye, call 'em 'flat'.

No, not at all; the proof is before your very eyes. If it's curved, it's curved. My real point is that, if curve there is, it's very slight, and your '1/2"' seems like one heck of a lot for a 'flat-top' guitar, that's all. If after a dozen years it's not budged, then it's fine. I doubt very much that there's much real 'acoustic' reason; it's far more likely to be strength, rigidity, longevity (all of which contribute to its tone, naturally...). If the bridge and string tension are not deforming the table over time, consider it to be a Good Thing and enjoy the instrument for what it is. The three manufacturers that you've cited are not 'one-off' custom builders, so it's not a question of having a luthier 'do his/her thing', and all three certainly know how to build very fine guitars. My own guitars (and basses...) are, for the most part, arch-tops, so I'm very used to the 'violin' concept of luthery, with their distinctive form and curves. Compared to any of those, our acoustics are 'flat', but, as I mentioned, when measued with a straight-edge, there is a very slight, but regular, bow to the table. Take it as being deliberate, then, for whatever reason the designer had in mind, as long as it's not changing. When I see a folk guitar, to my mind it's 'flat', and that's what my tired eyes see. Science (measurement...) tell me it's not an 'absolute', but I still call 'em 'flat-tops'..!

Our Eldest is a luthier, and I have spent many years (no; decades...) as music shop technician and player of guitars, of many types. I have yet to come across any acoustic folk guitar (often called 'flat-top' guitars; I wonder why..?) with anything but a virtually flat table, unless it's been pulled away from flat by string tension. If it's not flat, it has changed from new; they are not made that way (maybe a couple of millimetres, but no more...). The internal bracing keeps it flat and stiff, whilst maintaining an ability to resonate, and perform its role as a tone generator. If your guitars have a 'belly' at the bridge, I'd say that they have had this caused by string tension, exacerbated by damp, maybe. Removing the strings does nothing; this 'bellying' occurs over a long time, and string removal doesn't give any opposing force to bring the table back to flat, so it stays 'bellied'. Does it do any harm..? Only a luthier could say, by inspecting beneath the table to see if the bracing has been affected. It can come unstuck (in extreme cases, split the bracing wood...), or the bracing may, over time, 'follow' the hump (rather more rare...). In general, it's not a Good Thing. Anything more than a few millimetres would be, to me, cause for concern. It's easy to measure (I've just done it, with Our Eldest...) on my Takamine, using a steel rule across the table, just behind the bridge, and there's about 1.5mm at each edge of the table. That's while strung, of course, but I wouldn't expect it to be any different unstrung. The essential thing is : does it change over time..? If, year in, year out it's constant, don't fret it, but if the measurement changes, get it looked at, to find the cause, get it fixed, and fix the cause. Your 1/2" sounds really excessive, to me, but if it's not changing, just measure it each year as a check. Hope this helps.

One (too...) often sees acoustic (folk...) guitars with a 'belly' at the bridge, where the bracing has not been sufficient, or the instrument subjected to damp. The string tension can pull the (normally flat...) sounding table at the bridge, giving a 'hump' effect when viewed from the side. It's a sign of a poorly-designed guitar, or one having been abused. The sounding table of an acoustic (folk, or classical...) guitar should be flat, from new and forever. I've never seen any guitar of the sort with anything other than a flat table. Arch-tops, as has been mentioned, is another kettle of fish altogether, and the clue is in the name.

Are you sure that you don't live in a hive..? Have you checked..? It's easily done, you know...

Be careful what you wish for... ... ... ... Ooo look, a bee..!

Good afternoon, @Sea Chief, and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

Good evening, @Crusoe, and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

Good afternoon, @lemonstar, and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

An excellent product. I have had one for a few years, now, and have just bought a second one, they're that good. Good luck with the sale. (and 'No, sorry', my bank won't like me buying a third one, although I'd be tempted otherwise..! )

CaskCaster..?

Good afternoon, @bigjohn , and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

Good afternoon, @alembic1989, and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

In this context, it indicates 'flattened'; I'd prefer to think of 'B flat, flattened fifth' in the case presented (I don't think of 'A#', usually...). It's a valid substitution for Dm, when passing through to C. Sounds good..!

... or ... Where would you consider the Root to be..? That would determine its harmonic importance.

Good evening, @Jeff29361 , and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

Done (lacks a 'Never' choice for 'Disposing of guitars'; I replied 'Once only' as nearest neighbour...).

I've just scotched this on my PC (same issue...) by rubbing out the latest 'Windows Edge' update which crept in, crapped, and has now been booted out. Thank you, CCleaner, Good Job.

Good afternoon, @krysh , and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

Good evening, @Toms Guitars , and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share.

I don't find this strange at all. Most guitars, of the same make and model, are very similar, once a set-up has been done. Some folks (quite a lot, it would seem...) even commission custom guitars from builders; obviously they haven't been able to play 'em beforehand..! They're just confident that the spec they agreed with the Builder will satisfy them, and they're mostly right. I will admit to having gone through the whole range of cymbals in the shop, once, (I'm a drummer...), but have also bought decently spec'd stuff online, and never been disappointed. If it's broken or damaged, that's a different affair, but, to me, a Tele is a Tele is a Tele, really. We're all different...

Good afternoon, @Badscrew, and ... Plenty to read and amuse you here, and lots to learn and share. I started a few days after my 16th birthday, so 1966, with money from my first meagre pay-packet. Happy daze.

Ha..! Searching for that oh-so-elusive 'clean' sound, eh..? Good luck with that (and the tap-dancing lessons...).