Budget vs Premium

[Jag]

Hi all, I find it all too easy when looking for a new guitar to start with the intention of getting a decent budget one and gradually ending up considering moderately higher end models. I then find myself wondering it is worth the additional expense when it will be used with an average amp like a Marshall MG15CF. So I suppose the question is will a guitar with expensive branded pickups and better hardware be apparent when played on an 'average' amp? If so, how and to what extent. 

[ezbass]

Hmm. I one of those who subscribes to the theory that, outside of the player themselves, the biggest contributors to tone are the transducers in the signal chain - the pickups and speakers. The speaker is also reliant on being in an appropriate cabinet. I can’t help but think that a sub £100 amp won’t do a well built/equipped guitar the justice it deserves. That’s not to say that you can’t get a decent sound from a small amp, it might be the very sound you’re after, but I don’t think it’s in the same league as something more conventionally sized and with more power. Just my 2 cent’s worth, others may think differently. Go and try some ‘better’ amps when and if you can.

[Jag]

1 hour ago, ezbass said:

Hmm. I one of those who subscribes to the theory that, outside of the player themselves, the biggest contributors to tone are the transducers in the signal chain - the pickups and speakers. The speaker is also reliant on being in an appropriate cabinet. I can’t help but think that a sub £100 amp won’t do a well built/equipped guitar the justice it deserves. That’s not to say that you can’t get a decent sound from a small amp, it might be the very sound you’re after, but I don’t think it’s in the same league as something more conventionally sized and with more power. Just my 2 cent’s worth, others may think differently. Go and try some ‘better’ amps when and if you can.

I was afraid of this, it might snowball into something more than just a new moderately priced guitar! 

[Skinnyman]

Interesting question and one I struggle with too.

 

I’m another who starts out looking for something mid-priced but decent and then gradually talk myself into the top-spec, super-duper model with the go-faster doohickey and the Unicorn horn inlays.

 

In reality, I think that (assuming that the amp is at least reasonable) below a certain quality  level the guitar is the limiting factor.   At the very top level, you’re mainly paying for finish and decoration which have either a limited impact on tone or are so subtle that you need a much better amplifier/cabinet to hear them.

 

Somewhere between those two is the Goldilocks point where the instrument has decent pickups, bridge, but, etc and is put together properly. After that point, I’d start looking at upgrading to a better amp and speaker combo…

[ezbass]

24 minutes ago, Jag said:

I was afraid of this, it might snowball into something more than just a new moderately priced guitar! 

It always does .  
 

From my own POV, a new guitar always gives me more joy than an amp, so, if both need upgrading, I’d always go guitar first. However, if my current instrument played well and I liked it, I’d probably go amp and maybe some hardware upgrades for the guitar. I’ve had some stunning guitars and amps in the past, but my needs are more modest these days and my 2 electric guitars are a heavily modded Squier CV Tele and an equally upgraded Epiphone Casino Coupé. I only have a small amp these days, but it has the ability to line out to the PA or a powered cabinet (which I have), it’s a Fender X2 Super Champ combo, not expensive, but not bargain basement. After all the upgrades to the guitars, the X2 probably cost slightly less, but they’re all in the same, low-middle ground, price bracket.

[Jag]

1 hour ago, Skinnyman said:

Interesting question and one I struggle with too.

 

I’m another who starts out looking for something mid-priced but decent and then gradually talk myself into the top-spec, super-duper model with the go-faster doohickey and the Unicorn horn inlays.

 

In reality, I think that (assuming that the amp is at least reasonable) below a certain quality  level the guitar is the limiting factor.   At the very top level, you’re mainly paying for finish and decoration which have either a limited impact on tone or are so subtle that you need a much better amplifier/cabinet to hear them.

 

Somewhere between those two is the Goldilocks point where the instrument has decent pickups, bridge, but, etc and is put together properly. After that point, I’d start looking at upgrading to a better amp and speaker combo…

I too do this every time, tv, soundbar, car, laptop etc. I think I'll stick to the original plan, high end of budget to lower end of premium. I know its all relative but the amp is probably OK for me.... at the moment. 

[Jag]

On 23/12/2021 at 09:30, ezbass said:

Hmm. I one of those who subscribes to the theory that, outside of the player themselves, the biggest contributors to tone are the transducers in the signal chain - the pickups and speakers. The speaker is also reliant on being in an appropriate cabinet. I can’t help but think that a sub £100 amp won’t do a well built/equipped guitar the justice it deserves. That’s not to say that you can’t get a decent sound from a small amp, it might be the very sound you’re after, but I don’t think it’s in the same league as something more conventionally sized and with more power. Just my 2 cent’s worth, others may think differently. Go and try some ‘better’ amps when and if you can.

Good point re decent amp, I've ordered a Fender Champion. I'll look into a new guitar now. 

[EdwardMarlowe]

I've always stuck to the view that a budget guitar - as long as it's half-decent - will sound better with a great amp than a high end guitar with a budget amp. A lot depends on what you're looking for of course. Once you get past the basic of a guitar or an amp being solidly built enough to be durable - and the guitar feeling good when being played - it all becomes about subjective differences in look and sound. My little 20w Squier Amp I bought for £39 in 1998 (and which is still kicking around, for all the others that have come and gone), back in the days before switchable wattage and when my old Fender Performer 1000 (now long gone) was just too loud when my parents were in, is solid, reliable, and has never let me down. It does everything an amp needs to do - picks up movement from the string via the pickups in the guitar, and turns them into a sound. Not many, likely, are going to choose that sound over a boutique tube amp sound, but what you're paying for there in the end in a tangible sense is the difference in the look of the amp, and the sound. I do think that the amp has something more of an effect on the sound than the guitar - 60/40, 70/30 amp/guitar? Maybe. 

With guitars, I don't tend to struggle to find a sweet spot. It helps that budget guitars are getting better all the time. Also, my aesthetic preferences swing firmly to Fender styles, and solid colours over 'natural' finishes. I dislike fancy woodgrain finishes and such. This does very much mean that I can find guitars that do everything I want in the Fender Mexican range, or equivalent. The only real limiting factor that often pushes me beyond budget is that many of the guitars I really like simply aren't available left-handed below a certain price. If I had a grand to spend on a guitar and an amp, I'd be looking at a guitar around £400-£450ish, and an amp in the region of £550-600. 

My current amplifier is a Vox Valvetronic AD120VT- the big, ol' blue cloth original with the 2x12", looks like an AC30. In due course I'm going to sell it on. Sounds fantastic, but I really only use one or maybe two of the Fendery sounds on it. As I don't these days play out (and much as I don't like to think it, probably never will again, now in my late forties), it's just not ideal for me any longer. I even have the rare VC12 footboard for it, which will also be sold. The plan is to replace it with a small tube amp. In an ideal world, I'd love a tweedy Fender Pro Junior type 15watter, but I know I need something smaller. I'm going to push the boat out and pick up one of these Supro 1watters in the nice tweed finish: 

 

In the event I ever played out again, I'll either look into the bigger version of this Supro, or I'll go the route of those pedal-amps. I'm about to embark on the task of selling off two third to three quarters of my guitars (I've owned around fifteen over the years, currently have about twelve), cutting it back to just the US Strat, the CIJ Tele.... and *maybe* the Epi Les Paul (though the Epi staying is predicated on not being able to sell it for a decent price, I'm really quite over Les Pauls tbh. Love the sound of them played by other people, but that sound, it turns out, only comes to my hands via a Tele....). I'm planning then on using some of the cash realised this way to pick up a few new guitars. The ones I have my eye on are a Godin 5th Ave archtop, Gretsch 5240, Fender Player Strat in Tidepool, Vintage V52, and *maybe* a Gretsch 2622 if I can get away with it.... I might actually reverse the Gretsch order, though, as the 2622 in gunmetal is really calling me. I'm seeing it with some red and white pinstriping on... I'd love one of the Tidepool Player P basses as well. Going to be keeping my Brandoni P Bass, which is a three toneburst with rosewood (matches my old US Strat nicely). 

Suffice it to say my "dream guitars" nowadays are all pretty much budget models. If we won the crazy-money lottery win thing, I'd maybe think about a couple of top end Gretsches from the 6xxx series, though even then I'd probably want the cheaper models if I ever did get into playing out again. 

TL/DR: I'm a total advocate of buying a decent guitar and a great amp. 

[FrankAtari]

On 23/12/2021 at 09:22, Jag said:

I then find myself wondering it is worth the additional expense when it will be used with an average amp like a Marshall MG15CF.

 

Well in my opinion it may be worth it if you know what you're buying and will stick to that guitar in the years to come.

 

Ok some time has passed, have you got a guitar?

 

 

[Jag]

34 minutes ago, FrankAtari said:

 

Well in my opinion it may be worth it if you know what you're buying and will stick to that guitar in the years to come.

 

Ok some time has passed, have you got a guitar?

 

 

I'm still undecided but it will be either the Ibanez RG370AHMZ  with the Ibanez Quantum pickups or for an additional £100ish considering a couple of Ibanez guitars with DiMarzio pickups.  But the urgency has subsided for the moment as I have just bought a Tele copy on impulse. It was reduced and just too good to miss. Yes, I know its a completely different type of guitar, but a Tele was something I planned on getting sometime in the future anyway.  For a £130 guitar it sounds really good, build quality and finish is good and it has an ash body. 

[T-Bay]

As you can pick up decent 2nd hand amps for not a lot of cash that would be my first upgrade. As for guitars, I have one bought for £60 and one worth £2k, the expensive one sounds far better, but does it sound 33x better? No if I am honest.

[police squad]

fairly decent amps can be bought 2nd hand quite cheaply. At the moment Andertons are offering the vox mv50-ac plus a cab for 160 quid. A very good deal and a very nice bit of kit. I have the MV50 ac and have been gigging it through a 1x12 cab. More than loud enough for the function band I play with

[EdwardMarlowe]

On 20/01/2022 at 12:53, police squad said:

fairly decent amps can be bought 2nd hand quite cheaply. At the moment Andertons are offering the vox mv50-ac plus a cab for 160 quid. A very good deal and a very nice bit of kit. I have the MV50 ac and have been gigging it through a 1x12 cab. More than loud enough for the function band I play with

Those look like really nice little amps. How are you finding the - "microtubes", isn't that what they call them? - compare to 'regular' tubes? I've read a lot about them, but not had the chance to try one. Did sound like an interesting evolution of the technology, though - especially if they could develop them to fit into an amp built for standard tubes. 

[police squad]

On 26/01/2022 at 11:51, EdwardMarlowe said:

Those look like really nice little amps. How are you finding the - "microtubes", isn't that what they call them? - compare to 'regular' tubes? I've read a lot about them, but not had the chance to try one. Did sound like an interesting evolution of the technology, though - especially if they could develop them to fit into an amp built for standard tubes. 

the amp sounds really good. It cleans up nicely when you back the volume down on thw guitar

it's also very touch sensitive. If you dig in it breaks up nicely

 

All in all, I'm very impressed (and for a time 15 years ago, I was making and selling some all valve amps. www.wkz-amps.com)